Author Topic: Gearbox oil  (Read 367 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NivagRD

  • Club Member
  • Back Lane Scratcher
  • Posts: 338
  • Location: South West
Gearbox oil
« on: January 12, 2023, 10:45:39 AM »
Hi All, I have to drop the gearbox oil from my RD200DX soon (to do a few jobs). I know about the MA2 aspect, but what make/grade are people using these days?  In my LS2 Yam twin I use a product from Millers.  Thank you, Gavin
1973 LS2, 1980 RD200DX, 2019 CB650R.

Offline 5port

  • Club Member
  • Port Hacker
  • Posts: 10388
Re: Gearbox oil
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2023, 11:39:46 AM »
Hi,  Millars don't seem to offer motorcycle products?
Yamaha specify a 10W30 motor oil, which would have been an old mineral type.  However, modern high spec synthetic oils can offer real improvements for gearboxes and several premium oil manufacturers produce high quality 10W30 oil for bike engines that specify real optimisation for gearbox and clutch application , including the important MA2 spec.
Modern synthetic transmission oils without MA2 should be avoided, unless you run a dry clutch 2T.

Cheers

5port   
5port

Offline tore

  • Club Member
  • Port Hacker
  • Posts: 1312
  • Location: On a two-wheeler
Re: Gearbox oil
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2023, 12:31:23 PM »
Modern synthetic transmission oils without MA2 should be avoided, unless you run a dry clutch 2T.

Agree on this, I have eventually cured my clutch (and gearbox) from the Modul Transoil expert (does not comply to any spec) I used after some foolish decision. After numerous oil changes and cleaning of the clutch, I have now replaced both fiber & steel plates (still smells of the Transoil expert). New MA2 spec oil and the bike is now as it should be from clutch and gear box perspective.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2023, 02:36:35 PM by tore »
Tore

Suzuki T20 1969
RD350B (Indonesia) 1975
BMW R1150GS Adv 2004
HVA Roulette 1957
NV 125 1955
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k85mRPqvMbE

Offline NivagRD

  • Club Member
  • Back Lane Scratcher
  • Posts: 338
  • Location: South West
Re: Gearbox oil
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2023, 01:39:01 PM »
Thank you both 5 Port and Tore. Re the Millars, sometime ago, I spoke to their lab and they did an oil for me, which has worked well in the LS2. With the RD, all is good except, in really hot weather (not that we are seeing that currently) it can be difficult to find neutral due to drag. It currently has Westway's 10w30 2 stroke gear oil for wet clutches in it. Westway does the oil for my lathe and supplies me various fork oils. I have my car and van oils checked annually in a lab for various contaminents. I have not had problems with Westway products before so it maybe that after nearly 20K miles the clutch needs refurbishment (although it does not slip).  Thanks again, Gavin
1973 LS2, 1980 RD200DX, 2019 CB650R.

Offline 5port

  • Club Member
  • Port Hacker
  • Posts: 10388
Re: Gearbox oil
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2023, 03:08:04 PM »
No probs.  The only things I would add are, that oils are not all the same.  Unfortunately this makes the oil game quite tricky.  Things are more complicated in that Yamaha don't update the specifications for their old bikes, you could run your RD with old mineral 10W30 and ordinary mineral 2T.  However, there are much better performing oils available today.  The gearbox oil is possibly more complicated to choose.  If you imagine, a modern bike gearbox and wet clutch may be transmitting 4 times the power of an RD400. The oils to suit that are high quality synthetics that will also provide a higher level of lubrication in an RD, if you use one with the Yamaha specified viscosity.  The lubrication can be so good that the wet clutches slip, so they introduced JASO MA specifications that define the wet clutch performance, MA2 being the best for clutch. The other aspects of oil performance are covered by the API code, like SL which is a modern high standard.

5port     
5port

Offline pidjones

  • Club Member
  • Port Hacker
  • Posts: 667
  • Age: 70
  • Location: East TN
Re: Gearbox oil
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2023, 05:14:04 PM »
Happily, in the USA we can buy MA2 spec Shell Rotella oils in dino, blended, and pure synth versions of various multi-grades.
"Love 'em all... Let GOD sort 'em out!"

Offline 5port

  • Club Member
  • Port Hacker
  • Posts: 10388
Re: Gearbox oil
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2023, 04:44:07 PM »
Happily, in the USA we can buy MA2 spec Shell Rotella oils in dino, blended, and pure synth versions of various multi-grades.

Yes, there is a fantastic range of oils in Europe.  The difficulty can be that some specialist oil producers do not have the money to qualify their oils to the specs.  I search carefully to find the good deals on high spec oil at good prices.  Unfortunately, you can't just believe the blurb about the oil on the bottle, it needs the spec!

5port 
5port

Offline NivagRD

  • Club Member
  • Back Lane Scratcher
  • Posts: 338
  • Location: South West
Re: Gearbox oil
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2023, 11:59:44 AM »
Castrol Power 1 10w/30 looks suitable. It is available from Halfords where I can use my trade card. Going to get engine side casings painted and I will check clutch whilst they are off. Have a refurbished 2T oil pump to go on too (thanks to Arrow). Gavin
1973 LS2, 1980 RD200DX, 2019 CB650R.

Offline 5port

  • Club Member
  • Port Hacker
  • Posts: 10388
Re: Gearbox oil
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2023, 04:18:15 PM »
Castrol Power 1 10w/30 looks suitable. It is available from Halfords where I can use my trade card. Going to get engine side casings painted and I will check clutch whilst they are off. Have a refurbished 2T oil pump to go on too (thanks to Arrow). Gavin

Yes, I am using the Castrol power 1 racing 10W30.  Although it is rated for 4T bikes, the composition is also optimised for bike gearboxes and wet clutch, to MA2 standard.
It works very nicely in my track RD350 as well, with good gearbox action and perfect clutch. No slip with over 50bhp.

5port
5port

Offline NivagRD

  • Club Member
  • Back Lane Scratcher
  • Posts: 338
  • Location: South West
Re: Gearbox oil
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2023, 06:33:53 PM »
Good to hear 5port. Thanks, Gavin
1973 LS2, 1980 RD200DX, 2019 CB650R.

Offline RogerDodger

  • Forum member
  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 5
Re: Gearbox oil
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2023, 10:22:28 AM »
This is interesting and really useful. I usually just nip to the bike shop and ask what they recommend. It would be interesting to find out the consensus would be for the optimum RD200DX 'loadout' for fluids. The Castrol sounds like a good choice, having previously used Motul 10w/30 Mineral Transoil.

Likewise with 2 stroke oil, I've bought Silkoline Comp 2 ester based, but it would be useful to know if that's considered a good choice?

I'm new to the forum and have an RD200 1981 that's awaiting restoration and I have a lot of questions. Rog.


Offline 5port

  • Club Member
  • Port Hacker
  • Posts: 10388
Re: Gearbox oil
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2023, 10:58:51 AM »
API TC and JASO FD are the top ratings for 2T.  Unfortunately, Yamaha have not really updated their approved oils for their old models. However, the general opinion is that the TC and FD ratings are far better than old oils, and they apply to road 2T bikes as high performance lube.  Their are some specialist applications for 2T and for those you need to follow engine makers advice.

5port
5port

Offline NivagRD

  • Club Member
  • Back Lane Scratcher
  • Posts: 338
  • Location: South West
Re: Gearbox oil
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2023, 06:57:51 PM »
+1 for that. Modern 2T oils result in less carbon build up, are less likely to cause piston rings to stick in their grooves and provide better lubrication. The performance and longevity of modern two strokes is astonishing. Gavin
1973 LS2, 1980 RD200DX, 2019 CB650R.

Offline NivagRD

  • Club Member
  • Back Lane Scratcher
  • Posts: 338
  • Location: South West
Re: Gearbox oil
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2023, 05:51:09 PM »
Update. I have the clutch apart and all parts measure up well within factory manual spec', except for end float. I think I have found the root cause.  A previous owner had not sufficiently tightened the clutch boss securing nut, although the tab washer had prevented it from undoing.  This had allowed one of the ground washers (on the gearbox input shaft) to become slightly worn which has taken away the small amount of end float that there should be. The solution is to surface grind the thrust washer by a few thou' to get the required end float back.  This is probably why the bike suffered from clutch drag when the engine and ambient temperature was hot. I replaced the crank seal whilst I was in that side and covers are being repainted professionally. Gavin
1973 LS2, 1980 RD200DX, 2019 CB650R.