YCS CS3B build (this 'n' that)

[Foy(notFox)]

Ok so for those of you keeping up, and to get it straight in my own head 

Yeah so I got some very crusty wheels with 'The Hulk' and I've since established they are actually correct for YCS1/CS5E and I have some very nice rims plus NOS hubs bought years ago so I'm gently stripping down the wheels even tho I won't be using the rims, spokes or even the hubs I guess 

Years ago I stripped the rear wheels of my AS3, RD125 & RD250 and broke some spokes and used oxy-acetylene to free-off a few nipples on some spokes.

Strangely with this wheel - the most corroded I have seen - all the nipples are coming loose without resorting to gripping the spoke with mole-grips or using heat.

In fairness they have been doused in penetrating oil for ages but it's still a surprise to see them moving.

I got 17 of the outer ones out the other day and learned previously that it's a good idea to leave a lot of spokes in until all the nipples are loose. Otherwise you end up with the hub flailing around while you fight the last 2 or 3.
Most of the inner nipples are now loose too but 3 or 4 are soaking in ATF again

This all got me revisiting what I had done (many years ago) on the original project. The idea of that one was to try and build a bike out of all NOS parts. Well I never did find NOS rims. I got a very good 2nd-hand front wheel from Texas and a quite rusty rear from the UK.

I also bought new pattern spokes from somewhere foreign and thee style and thickness weren't quite right but I re-spoked the front wheel and the spokes rusted up if you breathed on them and the rear was never done.

Am sure I bought some NOS spokes in later years and will still have the very good front ones from the Texas wheel so I've kinda got all I need to get busy making up 2 good sets of wheels.

However, as discussed earlier, if i go with CS3 forks up front, instead of CS5, I will need to find a 174 brakeplate.

There are quite a few on Ebay and interestingly (being YCS1 parts) they don't have the same actuating-arms as the CS3 plates despite the actuating-arms having 174 part numbers. The YCS1 started off with arms from an earlier model (sort of tubular/cast rather than folded metal)

We established earlier that the arms on my 246 plate are actually identical to the 174 parts so I can just move them onto a 174 plate. There is a bare one on Ebay UK just now so I think I'll go for that - after checking my bank-balance 


loosening nipples from very rusty spokes with shifting spanner


despite pipe-cleaner appearance of spokes the area near nipple is quite clean



half way there



17 outer-spokes removed without drama   

[Foy(notFox)]

So this was a bit unexpected, but a good find all the same....

I'm gathering a lot of bits for the Hulk and I suspected hardest parts to find will be silencers and an engine.

I've been toying with the idea of getting YCS1 silencers from USA and/or hoping that the person in Japan who I got a lot of (CS2E) bits from will eventually list the silencers (I can see them in pics of bike he is breaking) but that's kinda pie-in-the-sky

Anyway while trawling Ebay I came across listings for unidentified silencers 'possibly RD125 or RD200' and I could see straight-off that they were from an older model. I asked the seller to take some measurements and dug out my re-chromed NOS ones (from the main project) and everything seemed to match up.

I didn't actually tell the seller I thought they were CS3 silencers in case he hoiked the price up and they didn't look in great condition anyway and at £60 each plus £10 (each) P&P I was already taking a bit of a gamble as they might be wrong.

He agreed to post them for £7 each which was better but looking at Parcelforce website it says there is no weight limit up to 30kg and it's only £8.95

However, on receipt, I could see what a pain it must've been to wrap them up so the extra few £s for posting is fair enough.

The sliencers are actually in pretty good nick. Better than I expected. And, more importantly, they are definitely correct 

I do like the look of the earlier (YCS1/CS2E) slash-cut silencers but thinking they might be baffled differently and not work on the 20cc larger CS3 engine 

I know nothing about exhaust pipe design.

It's always terrifying digging out items you paid a fortune to have re-chromed and the other silencers I had were put away in a carboard box after spraying with ACF50 about 10 years ago. I thought they might come out riddled in chrome but thankfully they seem ok. The one in the pic looks a bit greasy but that's because of the film on it. I did see a flaky patch on the back of one of them which is disappointing but could have been far worse. They would have probably been better stored in the open tbh as cardboard can get damp

So, all in, it was £134 for the silencers and now I realise I need the nut that connects them to the downpipe -despite having bought downpipes from Japan with the other nuts on them - the ones which connect to the cylinders. That'll be more money to spend 



£134 worth of unknown quantity



silencers look familiar and measurements given by seller seemed correct




these areas didn't get much plating at factory



next to NOS example. definitely correct


NB the seller has another silencer from a similar era and I think it's AS1. He has it listed (again) as RD125 or RD200 even tho I told him it could be AS1 or YL1. It's tempting to buy that and make a huge profit selling it on but as anyone following my 'buying from Japan' thread will have seen you usually lose money with these gambles 
 

[Gr8uncleal]

and now I realise I need the nut that connects them to the downpipe -despite having bought downpipes from Japan with the other nuts on them - the ones which connect to the cylinders. That'll be more money to spend 

Same as used on all the little RDs(?), so should be loads around quite cheap.

[Foy(notFox)]

Yes Gr8uncleal. I didn't realise that till after I posted and there are quite a few out there at a reasonable price so that's a relief.

Anyway I may have said months back that I quite fancied the idea of using CS5E/RD200 forks on the Hulk as it came with them and the yokes etc.

I was aware that the main difference between these and the YCS1/CS2/CS3 forks is that the springs are inside the fork-bottoms while on the earlier ones the springs are above, sitting outside the fork-stanchion

I guess that are probably the same diameter but have no idea if they would be a straight swap into the headstock or if you could mix & match bits of both set-ups.

I think I now have all the bits I need for both versions (apart from the brake-plate for the earlier wheel) and took some side by side pics of the fork-bottoms to get started on the comparison.

As you can see in the pics they are same basic size and diameter but the 337 ones have a very different item inside the leg. I don't think it is removable but it looks like some sort of valve which would control the oil-flow (damping). The 174 bottoms just have a short 'spike' at the bottom.

The 337 ones also have a more elaborate bottom-casting but aren't actually any longer there altho I was sure they were when I saw pics of them  .

I was aware that the wheel-spindle/shaft was a different part number (and its bearings) so expected it to be a different diameter but you can see from the pics that it fits the 174 legs perfectly. I'm thinking it may be the length that's different as you can see when the two types are next to their own partners the gap between the bottoms is quite different.



337 bottoms have long (fixed?) fitting inside



shaft from later models fits inside 174 parts fine


337 bottoms have more elaborate castings

 
337 fork-bottoms (middle) next to 174 parts. castings are similar lengths



337 LH bottom next to 174 RH bottom (outer and inner views)


337 RH bottom next to 174 LH bottom


337 bottoms in correct orientation. note size of gap



174 bottoms in correct orientation. gap is smaller


So that's the fork-bottoms compared. Next thing I'll compare is the yokes then the stanchions and springs and see how they all fit together and possibly interchange

[Foy(notFox)]

I'm not sure if this post belongs on this thread but it's after buying the the 'hulk' that I've ended up taking an interest in the CS5 (USA name) or CS5E (UK, Europe, rest of world name).

Anyway. The guy I bought the second CS3 from has been searching, or still is searching, for a CS5 sidepanel. I found a site online in USA (Babbits) where they apparently had a NOS one for $37.99

So I told the guy about it and he bought it - plus a NOS fuel-tank and NOS seat 

We both crossed our fingers that the parts would come.

Predictably, a few weeks later, he got told they didn't have any of the stuff and refunded his money.

So since then I have been trawling Ebay for a used one. They never come up although the LHS (oil tanks) come up all the time.

I had almost given up on the search when late one Sunday night I saw one for sale and despite the crazy shipping price decided to go for it. I messaged the seller first to ask if he could check the shipping was accurate and he replied to say he would refund anything substantial so I did a Buy It Now straight away.

True to his word he did make the refund. It was only £14 odd from a total payment of £86.81 but £72 sounds a bit better 

The exchange rates have probably fluctuated in the last month but the breakdown was approx £31.41 for the part, £36.04 for the shipping and £13.49 VAT 

Actually I'm a bit confused as the shipping originally showed at £43.25 so I seem to have ended up with more of a refund. Will work it out later - mb

So why do I even want it? Well - I was thinking if they are that scarce I could make replicas 

In fact I'd forgotten I wrote the following, to the CS3 guy, back in April:

Anyway I think the way fwd with the CS3 sidepanels is for someone to make them out of steel.  Would be too expensive to have them pressed but they are a simple shape and (with a pattern to work from) a reasonable copy could be made in sections from sheet steel

So that means I must have been trawling the net for one for almost a year.

Making a replica will probably be much harder than I expect so no doubt I'll just sell it on.

In fact I'll prob sell it on to the guy I'm talking about above. When the remains of the bike arrived on a pallet the handlebars and RH switch that showed in his original pics were missing. I asked him about them and he said the wife probably chucked them out

Perhaps he'll have another look if I have a sidepanel he needs 


very rare CS5 sidepanel from USA for approx £10 all-in



quite a lot of rust but it's light





unlike CS3 decals were used instead of paint on sidepanel/oil-tank


NB the part only took 2 weeks to come from USA which feels odd after all the Japan parcels I've had recently which take about 12 weeks

[Gr8uncleal]

The exchange rates have probably fluctuated in the last month but the breakdown was approx £31.41 for the part, £36.04 for the shipping and £13.49 VAT 

Not sure if that was a question or not ( ), but, on overseas purchases through big online sellers like fleabay, VAT is paid on the combined item plus postage cost.

Oh, and I've got a half decent right side switch going spare if you need one. It has the electric start button only (ie no kill switch), black outer cover (CS5 was silver grey) and the same part was used on the round tank RD200.

[Astute Greaser]

Have you considered using the WANTED section of the Forum 
Got one of those panels going spare, much same state as one you have. Got it with project RD200A. PO was going to use to replace the missing plastic sidepanel used on the A.

[Foy(notFox)]

I have to admit I didn't think of that 

But I do remember an Australian guy restoring a pre-suffix RD200 saying how hard the (plastic) sidepanel was to find for the early RD200.

There is one on Ebay just now for £100 and I saw one a while back on Ebay and gave the Australian guy a heads-up but he said he'd actually sold his RD200 on since we last made contact.

Wonder why these panels are so scarce. I can understand the plastic ones perhaps getting damaged but it seems odd that 2 similar machines both have this issue and it doesn't seem to be the case with other models such as the AS3 or early RD125 

[Foy(notFox)]

Yes. I'd be interested in the switch Gr8uncleal

As it's for a CS3 black is fine.

Thanks for the info about the VAT. Maybe I've not bought from abroad on Ebay for longer than I imagined as I don't remember it before despite having bought loads of stuff from USA.

However what was puzzling me more last night was I couldn't get any of the figures to match what I paid, less the refund, and that was partly due to the exchange rate fluctuating I guess 

[Gr8uncleal]

OK Graham.

If you PM me your email, I'll send photos over.

The fleabay global shipping costs, if he sent them using that service, are almost impossible to work out and I gave up trying ages ago! The seller doesn't see them or the amount of tax collected, although there might be a split on the statement for the bank/credit card account that is linked to your fleabay account.

From memory, Fleabay started collecting VAT on overseas purchases at about the same time as the Brexit trade agreement was done (not the earlier withdrawal agreement), although the timing was coincidental (collection was for purchases worldwide, not just EU). HMRC haven't bothered levying VAT on the last few parts I've got from my friend in the US  - maybe they deem it not worth their while, given that the majority of purchases are done via the big online companies. 

[Foy(notFox)]

I stay away from all listings that use the Global Shipping Program. Too much to pay in advance (of Customs) and I find that loads of parcels sent outwith GSP don't get a Customs charge anyway.

[Gr8uncleal]

I stay away from all listings that use the Global Shipping Program. Too much to pay in advance (of Customs) and I find that loads of parcels sent outwith GSP don't get a Customs charge anyway.

Yes, that's because fleabay have already collected the VAT. The seller has to put the fleabay transaction code into the postage/customs form and then HMRC reconcile this when fleabay pay it over to them. I do the same when I sell overseas - very straightforward with Royal Mail, apart from when they were attacked by ransomware and stopped posting for a couple of weeks! 

[Astute Greaser]

I have to admit I didn't think of that 

But I do remember an Australian guy restoring a pre-suffix RD200 saying how hard the (plastic) sidepanel was to find for the early RD200.

There is one on Ebay just now for £100 and I saw one a while back on Ebay and gave the Australian guy a heads-up but he said he'd actually sold his RD200 on since we last made contact.

Wonder why these panels are so scarce. I can understand the plastic ones perhaps getting damaged but it seems odd that 2 similar machines both have this issue and it doesn't seem to be the case with other models such as the AS3 or early RD125 

The plastic panels had two big conical springs on back to stop them rattling. This bulged the panel and stressed the lower mount plus those who fitted pods by removing the original airbox lost the front upper mount. Result air blowing behind and the bulge, the panels ripped off and went down the road 

[Foy(notFox)]

Right so with the early RD200 panel it's that the originals are mostly damaged.

Am sure someone said to me the CS5 ones are scarce as people took them off to get to the battery and forgot to put them back on.

 

[Foy(notFox)]

So I got another little part for the Hulk project. It's a RHS handlebar switch which serves 2 functions....

The throttle cable threads into it and it clamps over the twist-grip plus it incorporates the lead for the electric-start.

Was a very reasonable price from Gr8uncleal on here. 

I also dug out my spare CS3 fork-tubes to see how hey differ from the CS5 ones.

They are same diameter but a (very slight) different length  and also the circlip which stops the travel of the metal-slide is in a different position.

The bottom is different too. I now understand why there is a spike in the fork-bottoms of the CS3 legs. This goes into the hole on the bottom of the tube and centralizes it.

The CS5 tubes have internal springs and a more complicated fitting in the bottoms which does the same job.

So I think it's safe to say you can't interchange any of the CS3/CS5 fork components but am still not sure you could put CS5 legs into a CS3 triple-tree and vice-versa. 

As posted previously there is also a difference in the length of the fork-bottoms, between the 2 types, which is much more than the difference in the lengths of the tubes,

Will need to assemble  leg of each type and see if they are different lengths overall



still have wrappers for CS3 tubes bought many years ago



used RHS handle-switch secures twist-grip



throttle-cable screws into lower half



button and single wire are for the electric start



CS3 & CS5 fork-tubes side by side

 

CS5 tubes are a touch longer



circlips are in different positions



drillings for oil damping in slightly different positions



tubes are same diameter and look identical at bottom...



...but are quite different underneath



CS5 has springs inside fork tube



CS5 tube doesn't appear to have any other fittings inside



same with CS3