Author Topic: New owner needs help with points cleaning.  (Read 4279 times)

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Offline Cocoablini

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #60 on: November 24, 2022, 05:12:54 PM »
I mean turn key to ON, kill switch to RUN and then kick it over for spark. One spark of mine didn't fire off because the point was grounding out. You have to look at it with a magnifying glass to make sure your point actually opened or closed. Clean with carb cleaner on paper and close point and drag the paper out. Should have a lot of resistance

Offline Astute Greaser

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2022, 05:24:38 PM »
If you are just trying to check for a spark, any good spark plug will do… you are only going to rest it against the fins…
In fact you don’t even need a spark plug, the lead will throw a spark on to a fin directly if you have it anywhere close to it..

The bottom line is you’re whole ignition system looks very dirty and corroded. That is almost certainly going to mean there low resistance leakage paths that will render it in operative..

These bikes are just an typical example of ‘old school low tech’ auto engineering… no computer required… BUT… if you are really not comfortable and clued up on how a typical points ignition system works then maybe best to read some type of beginners  guide … then return to this particular engine..

This how my coils are connected, is this right? do I need to switch something out? The coil which has white sticker with "1" is left coil.

Pidjones wiring diagram shows the left coil should have grey wire, Right should have orange which your picture shows reversed  ::). When you look at points face on, check the LH points has grey which goes to LH coils and right orange. Otherwise, your timing is 180 deg out. However, you should still get spark  ???

PS
Checking my 200 the colours are as you presently have. Can anyone confirm if the wiring diagram is in error! However, if you do the colour check at the points as above that will be definitive
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 07:14:42 PM by Astute Greaser »

Offline pidjones

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #62 on: November 25, 2022, 02:31:12 PM »
Not my diagram, just linked from this site. And, you are correct AG, this error was noted in a forum post earlier this year.
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Offline redlining

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #63 on: November 25, 2022, 06:44:11 PM »
I mean turn key to ON, kill switch to RUN and then kick it over for spark. One spark of mine didn't fire off because the point was grounding out. You have to look at it with a magnifying glass to make sure your point actually opened or closed. Clean with carb cleaner on paper and close point and drag the paper out. Should have a lot of resistance

I shine my headlamp at a certain angle from the side of the points to make sure they are contacting. Otherwise you are right very easy to be fooled by just looking at it.
Both my Ignition has to be at first position and kill switch to run for me to get voltage at points.

Offline redlining

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #64 on: November 25, 2022, 06:46:01 PM »
If you are just trying to check for a spark, any good spark plug will do… you are only going to rest it against the fins…
In fact you don’t even need a spark plug, the lead will throw a spark on to a fin directly if you have it anywhere close to it..

The bottom line is you’re whole ignition system looks very dirty and corroded. That is almost certainly going to mean there low resistance leakage paths that will render it in operative..

These bikes are just an typical example of ‘old school low tech’ auto engineering… no computer required… BUT… if you are really not comfortable and clued up on how a typical points ignition system works then maybe best to read some type of beginners  guide … then return to this particular engine..

This how my coils are connected, is this right? do I need to switch something out? The coil which has white sticker with "1" is left coil.

Pidjones wiring diagram shows the left coil should have grey wire, Right should have orange which your picture shows reversed  ::). When you look at points face on, check the LH points has grey which goes to LH coils and right orange. Otherwise, your timing is 180 deg out. However, you should still get spark  ???

PS
Checking my 200 the colours are as you presently have. Can anyone confirm if the wiring diagram is in error! However, if you do the colour check at the points as above that will be definitive
Facing points the orange is connected to left point and grey to the right point.

Offline Astute Greaser

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #65 on: November 25, 2022, 07:10:17 PM »
Sorry for red herring but now you're certain that bit of wiring right. Lesson even Yamaha manuals can be wrong  ::)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 07:11:53 PM by Astute Greaser »

Offline redlining

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #66 on: December 02, 2022, 10:49:44 PM »
A bit of good news!!! I bought new spark plugs like suggested. I also checked all wires, coils and plug caps. I found that the right cylinder plug cap was showing open instead of 5k ohms. I ordered new plug caps, installed them. Kicked and no spark again.
I checked the points below and saw that the right point was not opening at all. Also found that the screw holding the black wire towards right of brushes was loose. I made sure the right point was opening and kicked. Now I am getting a spark on right cylinder  :).
I will check all the connections again, swap the left plug cap with new one and see if I can get a spark on left cylinder too. There is also quite a bit of spark at the right point, is that normal or a fire waiting to happen?

I thank everyone for patiently helping me out. I am tempted to just put some gas and see whether it fires but will hold off on that.

Offline pidjones

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2022, 12:09:51 PM »
Points arcing could be an indicator of a failed or improperly connected condensor - it is their sole purpose, after all. Primary issue from this is rapid points wear.
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Offline Cocoablini

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #68 on: December 05, 2022, 03:00:55 AM »
If you have spark(healthy) on right but not on left you can swap wires from coils and see if spark still happens. If no spark then the coil needs to be diagnosed. If you have spark, the it's pointing downstream to left wire, left point and any wiring associated with it. I would not try to start until you have spark on both sides or it's gonna get ugly and not do the engine any good.
If you have spark on both sides sides, then yes, try to see if carbs can deliver fuel to system. You can even cheat and spritz some carb cleaner(very little) in spark hole to add some.cheat vapor there. But ideally if you know it can fire and run(badly OK) then refer to timing of points to clean it up..and of course cleaning carbs

Offline Cocoablini

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #69 on: December 05, 2022, 03:04:25 AM »
And sanding all contacts is very underrated. I did all the contact cleaning and boom, I had voltage back to battery eventually. So sanding those constants..unscrewing and screwing back it will probably help get current into system. Coils needs a lot of diagnosis. DM me.if you need the rd instructions from Yamaha

Offline martin1957

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #70 on: December 05, 2022, 05:50:36 PM »
Take both plugs out..

Put a small 12v bulb, like a neutral or speedo/tacho illumination bulb across the points, ignition on, kill switch to run. Turn the engine slowly over one revolution, The bulb should light up when the points open, and go off when closed, about half a turn on and half a turn off.

Do this with both sets of points.

If this works the points have a 12v feed through the coil primary and the points are opening and closing correctly.

It does not test the capacitor (condenser) or the high tension secondary, plugs, or plug caps, in any way.
Retired Electronic Test Engineer (Avionics), Age 64, Owned P50, PC50, SS50z, YAS1, YDS7, RD350B till 1978, then in 2009 a  KH400 A4 - now sold. Have a fully restored YAS1, an AT3, and now a Suzuki T125 Stinger.  A show winner.

Offline Whitey

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #71 on: December 05, 2022, 07:45:38 PM »
Take both plugs out..

Put a small 12v bulb, like a neutral or speedo/tacho illumination bulb across the points, ignition on, kill switch to run. Turn the engine slowly over one revolution, The bulb should light up when the points open, and go off when closed, about half a turn on and half a turn off.

Do this with both sets of points.

If this works the points have a 12v feed through the coil primary and the points are opening and closing correctly.

It does not test the capacitor (condenser) or the high tension secondary, plugs, or plug caps, in any way.
Just a thought, any reason why this wouldn’t work using a tester set to 12v across the points?


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Offline redlining

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #72 on: December 05, 2022, 08:18:21 PM »
Yes I have already tested with multimeter and I get 12 v both when points are open and at the coil. I still haven't swapped out the old plug cap with new one. Waiting on Yamalube, so I can put a little bit of oil in the bores before I start kicking again.

Offline martin1957

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2022, 07:19:25 PM »
Take both plugs out..

Put a small 12v bulb, like a neutral or speedo/tacho illumination bulb across the points, ignition on, kill switch to run. Turn the engine slowly over one revolution, The bulb should light up when the points open, and go off when closed, about half a turn on and half a turn off.

Do this with both sets of points.

If this works the points have a 12v feed through the coil primary and the points are opening and closing correctly.

It does not test the capacitor (condenser) or the high tension secondary, plugs, or plug caps, in any way.
Just a thought, any reason why this wouldn’t work using a tester set to 12v across the points?


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This method will work with a 12v tester just as well.

It does put a bit of current through the connectors and is a method that requires almost no equipment.

I always use it when I do my timing with a dial gauge. You can see the dial gauge needle move slowly and see the bulb illuminate up without taking your eye off the gauge.
Retired Electronic Test Engineer (Avionics), Age 64, Owned P50, PC50, SS50z, YAS1, YDS7, RD350B till 1978, then in 2009 a  KH400 A4 - now sold. Have a fully restored YAS1, an AT3, and now a Suzuki T125 Stinger.  A show winner.

Offline Whitey

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2022, 10:54:58 PM »
Thanks, I did my timing first time round on the bench with the engine out, but now it’s in and wired up, I’ll check it with this method


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