Author Topic: New owner needs help with points cleaning.  (Read 4277 times)

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Offline betty foRD

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2022, 11:50:17 PM »
If you are just trying to check for a spark, any good spark plug will do… you are only going to rest it against the fins…
In fact you don’t even need a spark plug, the lead will throw a spark on to a fin directly if you have it anywhere close to it..

The bottom line is you’re whole ignition system looks very dirty and corroded. That is almost certainly going to mean there low resistance leakage paths that will render it in operative..

These bikes are just an typical example of ‘old school low tech’ auto engineering… no computer required… BUT… if you are really not comfortable and clued up on how a typical points ignition system works then maybe best to read some type of beginners  guide … then return to this particular engine..
« Last Edit: November 21, 2022, 11:51:48 PM by betty foRD »
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Offline redlining

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2022, 01:20:09 AM »
If you are just trying to check for a spark, any good spark plug will do… you are only going to rest it against the fins…
In fact you don’t even need a spark plug, the lead will throw a spark on to a fin directly if you have it anywhere close to it..

The bottom line is you’re whole ignition system looks very dirty and corroded. That is almost certainly going to mean there low resistance leakage paths that will render it in operative..

These bikes are just an typical example of ‘old school low tech’ auto engineering… no computer required… BUT… if you are really not comfortable and clued up on how a typical points ignition system works then maybe best to read some type of beginners  guide … then return to this particular engine..

Exactly, I am just checking for spark by resting it against the fins. I will do more reading clean the ignition some more, test the coils and caps and report back. Thanks for all the help. Like the others have chimed in I am not worried now about engine starting or charging, just getting a spark is what I am focused on.

Offline robrd

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2022, 10:23:24 AM »
What I do when checking for a spark is to get a jump lead, attach one end to ground and the other to the plug, this makes it easy to position the plug where you can easily see it.

Offline redlining

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2022, 05:18:10 PM »
NGK doesn't make the older non-shielded plugs so BR8HS is correct. You need to get unshielded plug wires or test continuity on old wires to make sure they are OK.
When the point opens up I believe the current is redirected to coils which will generate more amps and send that larger amperage to spark. If the point is closed I think it grounds to frame so both cylinders are not firing off at same time.
You can test spark/plugs by:
-Turn fuel OFF you don't need it
-Taking spark out
-Putting the spark cover back on
-hanging the plug so it touches metal(engine casing). Or hold it but watch your fingers(zap!)
-Crank/stomp the kickstarter a few times
-A spark should ground on the engine and if dark enough it should be apparent
Thats a good sign if you see spark on both sides and means the coils are probably OK. Obviously, testing OLMs and continuity will tell you if the coils and plug wires are being efficient. But at least current is being sent to coils and onwards if a spark comes up. Download manuals somewhere on this site for specs.

Will do, since I will be kicking this God only knows how many times before I get a spark, is it a good idea to put a little bit of 2T oil in the bores?

Offline redlining

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2022, 05:30:19 PM »
I picked this info up from another forum, US based (see below). Also, and a little research is necessary here, I think that you can still buy those plugs as Honda parts.

On spark plugs B8HS=4092 autolite for Ht1 and RD’s

Thanks, will buy it ASAP less than $2 a piece.

Offline Cocoablini

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2022, 08:26:29 PM »
It won't hurt to put some oil in the bore sides. But you said it turned when turning the crank?Taking plugs out too will decrease compressions and make it easier. Does the crankcase have oil in there? Did you drain it? You need that to lube the crankcase.
After you lube the piston bores, button it back up and place one spark plug back. Take the exposed plug and set it against the fins and see what you get for spark. If you get spark, well thats 1/3 of the problem solved.

Offline pidjones

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2022, 01:59:35 AM »
It won't hurt to put some oil in the bore sides. But you said it turned when turning the crank?Taking plugs out too will decrease compressions and make it easier. Does the crankcase have oil in there? Did you drain it? You need that to lube the crankcase.
After you lube the piston bores, button it back up and place one spark plug back. Take the exposed plug and set it against the fins and see what you get for spark. If you get spark, well thats 1/3 of the problem solved.
Hopefully not much oil in the crankcase, and no drain plug. This is a 2 stroke. There should be oil in the transmission and only light oil coating in the crankcase carried in by the fuel to lubricate things.
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Offline Cocoablini

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2022, 03:34:19 PM »
The gearbox I meant, not crankcase. Duh!

Offline redlining

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2022, 03:50:31 PM »
It won't hurt to put some oil in the bore sides. But you said it turned when turning the crank?Taking plugs out too will decrease compressions and make it easier. Does the crankcase have oil in there? Did you drain it? You need that to lube the crankcase.
After you lube the piston bores, button it back up and place one spark plug back. Take the exposed plug and set it against the fins and see what you get for spark. If you get spark, well thats 1/3 of the problem solved.

Oil is there and I have checked it with the dip stick which is near kick starter.

Offline redlining

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2022, 03:56:07 PM »
It won't hurt to put some oil in the bore sides. But you said it turned when turning the crank?Taking plugs out too will decrease compressions and make it easier. Does the crankcase have oil in there? Did you drain it? You need that to lube the crankcase.
After you lube the piston bores, button it back up and place one spark plug back. Take the exposed plug and set it against the fins and see what you get for spark. If you get spark, well thats 1/3 of the problem solved.
Yes crank moves freely. I can also move it through the spanner on the nut which is in the center between the 2 points. And when I kick start it the points open and close one by one, that is first one opens, closes and then the next one opens. Also I have put the exposed plugs against the fins multiple times and no spark.
I have also tried to check voltage at the points and I get light spark when my lead touches the points. Just nothing at the spark plug.

Offline robrd

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2022, 04:52:16 PM »
You say you get a spark when your lead touches, this should only happen when the points are open, if you are getting this on both sets of points without you turning the motor, your points aren't closing, that will stop it sparking.

Offline pidjones

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2022, 03:29:22 AM »
At least on the 400, you are advised NOT to use the nut between the points to bar it over. That nut is rather weak.
To check power to them and points functioning, hook a 12 volt lamp, or your multimeter on volts DC between ground and the point that moves with opens and closes. Lamp should light or 12 volts indicated with points open, and go away when it closes.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 03:33:51 AM by pidjones »
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Offline redlining

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2022, 02:20:24 PM »
If you are just trying to check for a spark, any good spark plug will do… you are only going to rest it against the fins…
In fact you don’t even need a spark plug, the lead will throw a spark on to a fin directly if you have it anywhere close to it..

The bottom line is you’re whole ignition system looks very dirty and corroded. That is almost certainly going to mean there low resistance leakage paths that will render it in operative..

These bikes are just an typical example of ‘old school low tech’ auto engineering… no computer required… BUT… if you are really not comfortable and clued up on how a typical points ignition system works then maybe best to read some type of beginners  guide … then return to this particular engine..

This how my coils are connected, is this right? do I need to switch something out? The coil which has white sticker with "1" is left coil.

Offline pidjones

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2022, 03:47:29 PM »
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 03:49:53 PM by pidjones »
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Offline Cocoablini

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Re: New owner needs help with points cleaning.
« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2022, 05:08:17 PM »
The coils wiring looks fine but I would go from stator area and unplug all the molex connectors and sand them with fine grit. I did this for generator and suddenly I had voltage going back.
Now, a question for everyone:
Doesn't the ignition key need to be turned on to send spark to plugs? And if you turn the kill switch ON to RUN, with ignition key to RUN. You may get spark at the points but the voltage/amps gets cut off at these switches.
If they were on, and no spark to coils to spark I would pull plug wires out and test the coils for spark and OLMs as well.
Electrical is hell. There is the common ground connection. The ignition system. I would pick up the wiring diagram here too.