Author Topic: *UPDATE* Arrived w/ PICS - New Keyster 'Tornado' kits... any experience?  (Read 623 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 76rd200

  • Forum member
  • Back Lane Scratcher
  • Posts: 108
  • Location: Wickford Essex
What did you set your timing to 1.5mm or 1.8mm btdc?
Bikes
Yamaha RD125 1976
Kawasaki KH250 1977
Kawasaki Z900 1976
Lambretta Li special 1968
Fantic Caballero 1973

Offline Shibby7634

  • Club Member
  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 17
  • Age: 29
  • Location: Indiana, USA
  • I'm trying my best here...
What did you set your timing to 1.5mm or 1.8mm btdc?

1.8, never saw 1.5 mentioned. You?

Offline 76rd200

  • Forum member
  • Back Lane Scratcher
  • Posts: 108
  • Location: Wickford Essex
1.5mm is mentioned in the dx supplement book.
 Older model was 1.8mm but yamaha dx supplement book says 1.8 for rd200dx and 1.5 for rd125dx.
Search on the 200 and below page for ignition timing, there are a few threads about it.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 12:31:20 AM by 76rd200 »
Bikes
Yamaha RD125 1976
Kawasaki KH250 1977
Kawasaki Z900 1976
Lambretta Li special 1968
Fantic Caballero 1973

Offline Shibby7634

  • Club Member
  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 17
  • Age: 29
  • Location: Indiana, USA
  • I'm trying my best here...
I've actually had the supplementary manual ever since I got the bike and loaded up on documentation, but I always assumed it was for a different year/model bike. So you're saying its relevant to my RD125B? I do see the RD125B mentioned, but I guess I wasn't sure on their wording if it applies.

I see they also have different jet settings. For example, the original manual says 94 MJ but the supp manual says 84. It also says a 40 PJ rather than the stock 44.

Considering I believe my bike to be running rich, this could explain some behaviors, such as a smokey idle and sluggish top end. I'll have to do some more comparisons and experiments.

I'm glad I got this kit though, and I bought some spare Kehin 95 jets (closest to 94) but never considered using smaller ones, and now I'll at least have as low as a 87 MJ and 43 PJ to experiment with eventually, but I'll definitely take it slow leaning out the jets... good thing these carbs are so fun and easy to remove!   >:( /sarcasm

I may adjust the timing first though and see how it reacts.

They also suggest a diff spark plug! B8ES instead of B8HS... hmmm... I just ordered 10 B8HS too  :-\
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 04:38:02 AM by Shibby7634 »

Offline Gr8uncleal

  • Club Member
  • Port Hacker
  • Posts: 1526
You probably want to get yourself a US service manual if you can. Saying that, the parts lists on CMSNL and Partzilla should be correct for your bike.

For European bikes, the Supplementary Service Manual suggests that frame numbers AS3-300101 on are for the RD125B and AS3-400101 on are for the RD125DX.

Just for anyone that didn't already know, Europe got a round tank model with front disc and a couple of other upgrades and they called this the DX and it is not the same (although there are shared parts) as our coffin tank RD125DX.

The same applies to the RD200.

The US got the same upgraded RD200, but that was called the 'C' over there - Mike (Astute Greaser) has one. I don't believe that they got the upgraded RD125.

Thanks Yamaha!!
Yam RD200DX (Gr8auntiepat's)
Yam FZX700 Fazer
Yam RD400 bitsa
Yam RD350B rough
Yam RT2 almost finished
Yam DT360A almost finished
Suzi GT550J just started
Suzi 1250 Bandit regular rider
Yam RD125B (probably!) now being reassembled
Yam AS3 in boxes

Online 5port

  • Club Member
  • Port Hacker
  • Posts: 8676
WHOA!   NGK B8ES are long thread reach, B8HS are short thread.  The plug characteristics are the same but, you might ram the pistons into the plug if you use the long ones in short thread heads and, the CR will be way up in a 62cc cylinder (over 8:1).  The short plug in a long thread head would be poor running with low CR (about 4.5:1) on those small cylinders.  You can easy check your heads for thread depth and see which plug suits. ;)
The Needle length being slightly longer might not be an issue, if the Needle dimensions and taper angle are correct.  Usually, Needles do not come clear of the Needle jet, so that there is no danger of the Needle catching on the outside and jamming the slide at WOT!  You can measure to see that the Needle end clears the Needle jet metering aperture.  If you think about it, standard Needle jet clip grooves vary the effective length by a range of over 5mm.   However, your testing will reveal how it all goes.  Cheers

5port 
5port

Offline Gr8uncleal

  • Club Member
  • Port Hacker
  • Posts: 1526
CMSNL shows B8ES for your bike and the head as being the same as that from the 1973 model.
Yam RD200DX (Gr8auntiepat's)
Yam FZX700 Fazer
Yam RD400 bitsa
Yam RD350B rough
Yam RT2 almost finished
Yam DT360A almost finished
Suzi GT550J just started
Suzi 1250 Bandit regular rider
Yam RD125B (probably!) now being reassembled
Yam AS3 in boxes

Online 5port

  • Club Member
  • Port Hacker
  • Posts: 8676
CMSNL shows B8ES for your bike and the head as being the same as that from the 1973 model.

Fair enough and info to help with spares.  However, for anyone putting plugs in any engine, check the plug threads against the heads you actually have.  :)

5port
5port

Offline Shibby7634

  • Club Member
  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 17
  • Age: 29
  • Location: Indiana, USA
  • I'm trying my best here...
CMSNL shows B8ES for your bike and the head as being the same as that from the 1973 model.

Heres the foreward from the supplemenary manual implying the new info applies to RD125b.

93200-0

But CMSNL shows the specs of the original service manual still. B8HS and 1.8mm vs 1.5mm

93202-1

Sorry, if I seem foolish or naive, I am quite confused now  ???
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 04:32:06 PM by Shibby7634 »

Offline Gr8uncleal

  • Club Member
  • Port Hacker
  • Posts: 1526
The Supplementary Service Manuals generally only show changes for the new model(s) covered by that manual, in this case the RD125DX and RD200DX (round tank models, as per my earlier post). As you have a RD125B, and a US version at that (I think!), they don't apply to your bike.

Where there is no mention of a change in specification for the new model, existing specifications remain.
Yam RD200DX (Gr8auntiepat's)
Yam FZX700 Fazer
Yam RD400 bitsa
Yam RD350B rough
Yam RT2 almost finished
Yam DT360A almost finished
Suzi GT550J just started
Suzi 1250 Bandit regular rider
Yam RD125B (probably!) now being reassembled
Yam AS3 in boxes

Offline Astute Greaser

  • Club Member
  • Port Hacker
  • Posts: 534
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Bristol
As 5port says it's important to check.
The age of these bikes the Heads and barrels may well have been swapped with the short reach model "A"
Its easy to see difference between 3/4" and 1/2". A lot easier, obviously with a head off. Also check that the heads look the same, not sure but because of deeper plug, height of heads may be different!

Offline 76rd200

  • Forum member
  • Back Lane Scratcher
  • Posts: 108
  • Location: Wickford Essex
I've actually had the supplementary manual ever since I got the bike and loaded up on documentation, but I always assumed it was for a different year/model bike. So you're saying its relevant to my RD125B? I do see the RD125B mentioned, but I guess I wasn't sure on their wording if it applies.

I see they also have different jet settings. For example, the original manual says 94 MJ but the supp manual says 84. It also says a 40 PJ rather than the stock 44.

Considering I believe my bike to be running rich, this could explain some behaviors, such as a smokey idle and sluggish top end. I'll have to do some more comparisons and experiments.

I'm glad I got this kit though, and I bought some spare Kehin 95 jets (closest to 94) but never considered using smaller ones, and now I'll at least have as low as a 87 MJ and 43 PJ to experiment with eventually, but I'll definitely take it slow leaning out the jets... good thing these carbs are so fun and easy to remove!   >:( /sarcasm

I may adjust the timing first though and see how it reacts.

They also suggest a diff spark plug! B8ES instead of B8HS... hmmm... I just ordered 10 B8HS too  :-\

Sorry my fault. For some reason I thought you had a dx. I am reading too many threads at the same time.
If you have an American 125b then your timing is probably right at 1.8mm.
I believe your jetting is different too.
My European dx has B8ES plugs but I believe the earlier B model 125 had B8HS

Although after reading some of the posts above I am completely confused myself now as to timing and plugs for a coffin tank 125 😨
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 08:44:03 PM by 76rd200 »
Bikes
Yamaha RD125 1976
Kawasaki KH250 1977
Kawasaki Z900 1976
Lambretta Li special 1968
Fantic Caballero 1973

Offline Shibby7634

  • Club Member
  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 17
  • Age: 29
  • Location: Indiana, USA
  • I'm trying my best here...
You had me kinda excited! I thought this was gonna be the solution to my remaining issues! Haha. My 10 pack o' plugs and jets should help me get this mixture spot on soon enough.

I'll figure it out eventually. Little by little replacing all the things.

Coils soon, with points and condensers done. DO you have any experience with high output coils? I was gonna give em a shot... absolute overkill or worthwhile? From HVCCycle.

Rings and small rod bearings soon, oil seals less soon, and crank bearings fall or later probably. Hope one doesn't go out on me before then! I'm paranoid about that. Just scared to split the cases!

It'll prolly be like all the other things I've done for my first time... SCARY in thought, not as bad in practice. Overthinker here  ::)

Offline Mountainsofbeer

  • Forum member
  • Back Lane Scratcher
  • Posts: 69
  • Location: New England
You had me kinda excited! I thought this was gonna be the solution to my remaining issues! Haha. My 10 pack o' plugs and jets should help me get this mixture spot on soon enough.

I'll figure it out eventually. Little by little replacing all the things.

Coils soon, with points and condensers done. DO you have any experience with high output coils? I was gonna give em a shot... absolute overkill or worthwhile? From HVCCycle.

Rings and small rod bearings soon, oil seals less soon, and crank bearings fall or later probably. Hope one doesn't go out on me before then! I'm paranoid about that. Just scared to split the cases!

It'll prolly be like all the other things I've done for my first time... SCARY in thought, not as bad in practice. Overthinker here  ::)

US spec RDs are easy to spot, they  have no tach.  The manual says b8es and 1.8mm. Ive been using BR8ES out of availability. 

The rd200s and rd125s from 75 and 76 have similar decal schemes year dependent.   Like for both models in 1976 the decals look similar and same for the 75s, except both year rd200s are blue and the 75 r125 is that purplish color and the 76 is a brighter Chappy red i think named after the Chappy moped?scooter? they were selling  around that time.  We can do pictures but they are out there

I replaced my seals not bad, I just did what the manual says which is stick a flat head in carefully and pry it out, it should not be a wide bulky flat head use something with a narrow profile and try not to scratch the surrounding surface. I think I had to tap it to get started and I ended up kind of rotating mine out.  I have the dry side seal as SD 28 44-7 and the wet side is SW 28 40 8. On the clutch side there is this spacer bushing piece that slides on first before the seal if you put the seal in first it might work but when you try and put that spacer piece on it will want to roll the inside of the seal.  I used  sockets to tap the seals in
Just don't send it all the way home if its not straight up and down, and if you see the inside start to roll remove and start over or push that side even further in and then tap the opposite side to straighten seal.  Getting it started is most of the work it and then evenly tapping it in is the rest.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 02:57:37 PM by Mountainsofbeer »

Offline Mountainsofbeer

  • Forum member
  • Back Lane Scratcher
  • Posts: 69
  • Location: New England
Whoa a few weeks later and I've got myself an updated kit. 
They did the same to me, refunded shipping, then an email a few days later asking for phone number.  How they got it to the states is a mystery and its too late for U-boat jokes. 
I am going to ask what other model kits were updated.