Author Topic: Jason, the patient Honda SS50 4-speed (new piston & rings)  (Read 13344 times)

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Offline martin1957

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Retired Widowed Electronic Test Engineer (Avionics), Age 62, Owned P50, PC50, SS50z, YAS1, YDS7, RD350B till 1978, then KH400 from 2009 onwards. Have a fully restored YAS1 on the road, and an AT3. And now a Suzuki T125 Stinger to get fired up, with another Stinger in boxes....

Online Motty

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Re: Jason, the patient Honda SS50 4-speed (spare barrel & VHT)
« Reply #61 on: March 24, 2020, 12:43:16 PM »
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-SS50-CLASSIC-RESTORATION-PROJECT/274309857749?hash=item3fde2441d5:g:qwgAAOSwA9xebOCZ
What crap photos (possibly on purpose?)
I note they have junked the pedal arrangement that Graham is busy collecting parts for

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Offline Foy(notFox)

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Re: Jason, the patient Honda SS50 4-speed (spare barrel & VHT)
« Reply #62 on: March 24, 2020, 06:26:21 PM »
The pitting in that barrel looks quite deep on the photographs.
Is really that poor?

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It's hard to say Motty as there's no real way to measure the pitting but I'm confident it will clean up within the range of available O/S pistons. +1.00 is readily available but I suspect there are bigger ones

Am not too bothered if it doesn't work out as this isn't the original barrel plus it'll give me some experience in dealing with the company(s) who do re-bores
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Offline Foy(notFox)

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Re: Jason, the patient Honda SS50 4-speed (spare barrel & VHT)
« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2020, 06:28:58 PM »
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-SS50-CLASSIC-RESTORATION-PROJECT/274309857749?hash=item3fde2441d5:g:qwgAAOSwA9xebOCZ
What crap photos (possibly on purpose?)
I note they have junked the pedal arrangement that Graham is busy collecting parts for

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I never thought of doing that lol but with a lowly machine like this I'm sure completeness/originality is a big factor in value. The one in listing seems to be a later 5-speed (disc front brake, high bars, black frame) but with the Candy Sapphire Blue tank from a 4-speed
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Offline Foy(notFox)

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Re: Jason, the patient Honda SS50 4-speed (decent head purchased)
« Reply #64 on: April 20, 2020, 09:27:00 PM »
Just popping in to say I have bought a bare head from a guy in Netherlands who has 5 like this.

I am still trying to sort my original head but after 34 years without success I think it's acceptable to use this as a stand-in. Why haven't I done this before?

Well believe it or not I've bought 4 heads over the years and they've all had something wrong with them. It does seem bizarre that a decent head wouldn't surface in over 15 years on the www but I honestly don't remember seeing any so at 70 Euros (including shipping) this seemed a good buy


used head which has had decent repair to exhaust-studs


exhaust flange fits fine
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Online RD17

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Re: Jason, the patient Honda SS50 4-speed (decent head purchased)
« Reply #65 on: April 20, 2020, 10:30:59 PM »
Good find! I have always found the 'break through' machining on these Honda heads a bit strange. Almost an afterthought or a pattern change  :-\ Perhaps just an evolution of a pattern - this is shown on some Yamaha parts but usually just race parts like the TZ waterpump outlet castings etc. Looking forward to seeing this bike back together.

Cheers
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Offline Foy(notFox)

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Re: Jason, the patient Honda SS50 4-speed (decent head purchased)
« Reply #66 on: April 21, 2020, 11:18:53 PM »
Hi RD17. Forgive my ignorance but am not sure what you mean by 'break through' machining.

Do you mean the complete bore which would have existed at the exhaust-port if the head was an inch or two deeper?

I wondered about the V slot as the C50 heads have a different shape here. Thought it was for ID purposes lol.

I'll dig out a pic or two if I can find them on PC
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 07:37:40 PM by Foy(notFox) »
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Offline Foy(notFox)

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Re: Jason, the patient Honda SS50 4-speed (O/S piston rings)
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2020, 08:25:34 PM »
So what am I doing here?

Well, to re-cap, I have my original barrel and a STD piston c/w rings that someone kindly sent me for nothing. I think the original was thrown away about 30 years ago when I un-seized the engine. I don't remember if the piston was damaged or not but iirc I thought I'd need to chuck it as I'd hit it with a big metal drift.

I'm planning just to glazebust this and use it with the original head - if I ever get the exhaust-studs sorted.

So I have the spare barrel too which needs re-bored and am .'. buying all the O/S pistons/rings so that the engineers (PJME probably) can clean it up then use the (smallest) suitable size.

The pistons and rings for these engines are pretty cheap and not hard to find so am buying genuine Honda ones when they pop up on Ebay. Preferably in original boxes as am a bit wary of stuff with no packaging. Even if the seller is totally genuine they could be incorrect.

There are also some listings where the rings & piston are being sold together, which is great, but as the parts are so cheap to post I don't mind getting say a +.50 piston off one seller and the matching rings off another.

So this week I ordered +1.00 rings (£5.00); a +.50 piston (£8.49); +.50 rings  (£8.00) and the rings arrived today. Slight problem is the .50 rings have a different part number to what it said and showed in the listing. Suffix is 015 instead of 000 so I've contacted the seller to ask for correct ones if they have them. They seem to have sold a few sets recently so mb they will have the correct ones




2 sets NOS Honda rings 



top are +.50 and bottom are +1.00. 015 suffix on +.50 is not in parts list




close-ups of rings



marking on all the rings



T for TOP is on two of the rings



100 for 1.00 is on all of them

So I've still to find +.25 rings (have had +.25 NOS piston for a while) and have nothing for +.75 yet. Am also geared-up for blasting & painting the barrels but my air hose decided to perish so I got a new one but that has a male fitting at one end and a female at the other whereas my old hose had male at each end so I bought a new fitting for one end but bought wrong size (3/8 BSP instead of 1/4 BSP) so have ordered another one.

Jesus Christ! Does anything ever run smoothly? My tyre-pressure gauge has suddenly stopped working too and all my tyres are losing air but I can't check them or pump them up (at the barn) till I get this fkn air-hose sorted out  >:(   
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 12:13:02 AM by Foy(notFox) »
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Online Motty

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Re: Jason, the patient Honda SS50 4-speed (O/S piston rings)
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2020, 09:52:54 PM »


So what am I doing here?
Jesus Christ! Does anything ever run smoothly?

I hate to disappoint you, but basically no nothing runs smoothly. If you ever find yourself in a position that it actually looks like something might work in your favour, be very afraid, as something calamitous is about to happen

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Offline Foy(notFox)

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Re: Jason, the patient Honda SS50 4-speed (O/S piston rings)
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2020, 10:42:08 PM »
 :D

haha. I think you may be on to something there Motty
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Offline Foy(notFox)

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Re: Jason, the patient Honda SS50 4-speed (spare barrel)
« Reply #70 on: May 05, 2020, 08:38:05 PM »
So the pistons and rings for the spare barrel are arriving think n fast and I had some huge success removing seized bolts from my Mondeo components which made me think I was invincible so I set about removing all the broken bolts/studs from all my junk.

Needless to say it turned out to be a complete and utter fkn waste of time and my mojo has plummeted but wouldn't be one of my threads unless I shared the misery.

So what went right/wrong? Well on the Mondeo struts I used oxy-acetylene to get a very stuck bolt out then one that was in two pieces totally sheared of.

The spare barrel has two screws snapped in it which have been partially removed before and whoever done it hasn't made a complete arse of it so I thought I'd have a go at getting the remains out using same techniques I employed on the Mondeo bits plus some 'magic' self-centreing drill things.

One of the screws on the barrel had a little sticking out the bottom and and good threads above it. I think someone has actually tapped it oversize as the hole looks bigger than the screw.

Anyway I figured I'd  weld a blob onto the screw, heat the area with oxy-ace', soak in ATF then get even the slightest movement on it by gripping the blob and moving left n right. Then I'd need to grind some of the blob away and gradually turn it out, as the hole exits out to a confined area on the casting.

Well the blob was huge, the casting was hot and I  was sorely disappointed when the blob just sheared off. So I turned to the special drill bits. I'd bought them for the bane of my life XJR1300 nightmare. They are really for joiners getting the screw-hole right in middle of the hinge-hole.

Absolutely no use on vehicle parts as they are so cheaply-made they wobble around and the integral drill-bits won't bite into metal. I did make a pip in one screw with it then moved to another decent drill-bit and the hole is off-centre so fkn waste of time and on the one I tried to get out with the blob someone else has drilled a hole way off-centre so completely pointless trying to get past that.

I won't even go into what happened with the XJR and Jaguar studs as it's too soul-destroying but like an arsehole I returned to the barrel today to sandblast it and that was an utter xxxx of an experience...

I think I mentioned my new air hose with pointless 1 male x 1 female end. Well I got the right-sized connector for it and it must be cheap crap as there is air hissing out of it whilst the one I have had for about 20 years is fine.

Ignoring that we come to the actual blasting. I dug out my air-filter mask (rubber type with 2 filters on) and my visor plus the blasting-pot and hooked it all up but you get about 2 seconds of blasting before the thing clogs up.

I used this thing years ago to sandblast whole underside of cars and it was a nightmare then but with several quirks I could get it to work. Today was just a waste of time and after all the shit with the snapped studs etc am thinking 'why even bother?'. Just get rid of the whole fkn lot of it and take up drinking or something  >:( :( :'(



bolt stuck in Mondeo strut





removed successfully with MIG & oxy-acetylene


remains of a screw in barrel. enough left to wind out from bottom?



decent thread above broken bit but probably been tapped oversize



not possible to drill again as someone has been there before and went squint
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Online Motty

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Re: Jason, the patient Honda SS50 4-speed (spare barrel)
« Reply #71 on: May 05, 2020, 11:08:37 PM »

We all get days when it is better to walk away.
Tomorrow, or the day after have another look

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Offline Foy(notFox)

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Re: Jason, the patient Honda SS50 4-speed (new piston & rings)
« Reply #72 on: May 12, 2020, 12:32:48 AM »
Thanks for the encouragement Motty but with most of these projects I've been walking away and going back for another look for years and it 'yep, studs still stuck, yep miracle-fix #49 failed'  :(

Anyway am just in to show some of the new acquisitions. All +.50 but that's not the point. It's more to show minute differences...

After contacting the vendor of the 015 rings who told me they had 26 sets - only one of which were 015 - and did I want a refund. I explained no I wanted the 000 rings but he didn't seem to understand this so I just bought another set. I also got my +.50 piston which (wasn't listed as genuine Honda).

So now I had both types of rings and wasn't returning the wrong ones I opened them for comparison. All the experts had told me there was absolutely no difference (as last 3 digits indicates supplier only) but there are some very minor differences.

The piston has 'Honda' on it when genuine Honda ones seem to have 'ART' and there are some tiny differences but the experts are telling me the pattern part is genuine. Who knows? it looks good quality anyway


now have both 000 & 015 +.50 rings



015 rings all have T 50 etched on them



000 rings have N 50 etched



middle rings. 015 is stepped on outer edge



top rings. slight difference in angle/area of chamfer





'pattern' (+.50) piston has reassuring Honda 036 markings




markings on crown in different position to genuine +.25 piston




ART piston has one cutout for circlip. 'pattern' Honda piston has two



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