Author Topic: Elsie 2  (Read 21302 times)

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Online tony2stroke

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Re: Elsie 2
« Reply #285 on: September 13, 2018, 10:33:06 PM »
If it ain't cheap, it ain't happening for me, its simple as that really  :'(  the LC has taken everything, they are robbing barstewards, they promise you everything with their good looks, sound, power band and smell, and you look with your LC tinted lenses on, out comes the wallet and by by money, They're worse than crack.

I have the ability to do mostly, but to pay is a different matter.

Online betty foRD

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Re: Elsie 2
« Reply #286 on: September 14, 2018, 08:39:43 AM »
Yes the shock mount is on the bottom not on the top where it should be but my welder said total time maybe 15 mins to cut it off and ally weld it back. Cost? £20. Even though he had it for a month and did nada lol. He is a bit busy...


As for the LC parts yes I want to save mine. Some prices have dropped, like front forks for example. Tanks likewise. Clocks are getting more pricy, I can't figure it out!

But...a well sorted hybrid goes for more money than a mint stocker. I know that's not Tony's aim as he wants to keep his bike (as do I) but it is comforting to know!


Just want to add an alternative view to some of these points. Doesn’t mean they are right , it’s just how I see it...

The top of the swingarm was not designed to take vertical load....you can’t  just raz the mount from below and stick it on the top, you need to fabricate a structure to transfer load to the sides of the arms in much the same way as a Metchamex or TZ arm is. At the same time the shock eye needs to be in the same place relative to the swingarm bolt of the LC arm otherwise the geometry will be diferent.
So to be frank, to have some guy just cut it off and stick it on the top is fine unless you were actually intending to ride it......

LC parts prices are totally understandable . The parts that now have aftermarket replacements as options such as tank and forks (rear mudguard etc) means that folks no longer have to pay a kings ransom for leaky tanks and rusted forks. The other parts where there are no options remain on the way up ...£150 for a main stand £300+ for a set of clocks etc etc.

As for bike values. The hybrids typically sell for 80% of what they cost to build. The builders who build for pleasure and as a hobby don’t expect to see a profit but get huge satisfaction from creating something that they and then others will then go on to enjoy. These days the budget for a big build hybrid is 10K+ with engine often costing 4K...

For LCs, the cheaper LCs value is largely determined by sum of the parts where as the most expensive have value coming from the intangible factors of UK bike , matching numbers, number of owners, history etc. Even with that there is a top limit and means that some of the trick hybrids are more valuable than a stock LC....but all with good reason.


« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 08:51:05 AM by betty foRD »
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Online tony2stroke

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Re: Elsie 2
« Reply #287 on: September 14, 2018, 12:48:34 PM »
Yes the shock mount is on the bottom not on the top where it should be but my welder said total time maybe 15 mins to cut it off and ally weld it back. Cost? £20. Even though he had it for a month and did nada lol. He is a bit busy...


As for the LC parts yes I want to save mine. Some prices have dropped, like front forks for example. Tanks likewise. Clocks are getting more pricy, I can't figure it out!

But...a well sorted hybrid goes for more money than a mint stocker. I know that's not Tony's aim as he wants to keep his bike (as do I) but it is comforting to know!


Just want to add an alternative view to some of these points. Doesn’t mean they are right , it’s just how I see it...

The top of the swingarm was not designed to take vertical load....you can’t  just raz the mount from below and stick it on the top, you need to fabricate a structure to transfer load to the sides of the arms in much the same way as a Metchamex or TZ arm is. At the same time the shock eye needs to be in the same place relative to the swingarm bolt of the LC arm otherwise the geometry will be diferent.
So to be frank, to have some guy just cut it off and stick it on the top is fine unless you were actually intending to ride it......

LC parts prices are totally understandable . The parts that now have aftermarket replacements as options such as tank and forks (rear mudguard etc) means that folks no longer have to pay a kings ransom for leaky tanks and rusted forks. The other parts where there are no options remain on the way up ...£150 for a main stand £300+ for a set of clocks etc etc.

As for bike values. The hybrids typically sell for 80% of what they cost to build. The builders who build for pleasure and as a hobby don’t expect to see a profit but get huge satisfaction from creating something that they and then others will then go on to enjoy. These days the budget for a big build hybrid is 10K+ with engine often costing 4K...

For LCs, the cheaper LCs value is largely determined by sum of the parts where as the most expensive have value coming from the intangible factors of UK bike , matching numbers, number of owners, history etc. Even with that there is a top limit and means that some of the trick hybrids are more valuable than a stock LC....but all with good reason.

There are more points here though Peter, if we wanted an easy life we wouldn't buy an RD or any 2stroke for that matter, and we certainly would not attempt to hybrid, we would have a Honda, I don't think Alex's bike or mine would ever be 10K either, we can't afford that, and 10K would be farming out lots of the work, we can do most of the work ourself, beefing up the swing arm where needed is not at all hard and "NO" you can't just cut the mounts off the bottom and weld on top, if you know what your doing strengthening that area is easy enough, for some its all about the doing isn't it, A 4K engine would be an Athena kitted YPVS engine, we ain't getting 1 of those either, max £800 engine re-build for us, re-bore, crank re-build and the oil seals / bearings, the work is done by use, If you can't do you pay, but if you can then big savings. 

lots of people don't want repro stuff though, many will go to great lengths to restore an original part or wait years for NOS original, (rivet counters)  there is no way of telling what something used will sell for, I see stuff go for silly money while there is another identical item listed for 1/2 the price, it happened with a main stand recently, new 1 listed £130 ish second hand went for around £200 mark, can't remember specific detail but it happens all the time, and the next week 1 will go for £90, MPH clocks have been around £350 mark since I had my LC, as you said earlier if your prepared to wait for the right deal and think outside the box then again big savings.

As for bike values, they fluctuate all the time, supply and demand, plenty for sale price goes down, few for sale price goes up, same for anything.

I don't understand the mentality of original UK matching numbers though, most have been restored to within an inch of their lives using second hand German parts on a rusty British frame, The engines are re-built so that is not original as they have replaced everything with new parts, its a contradiction in terms, all original my elbow, they are bitsas like mine just with matching numbers on the cases and frame (mental) IMO and lets not mention the scruffy American imports.

I have mine to ride and tinker the same as Alex and I think you are the same, like most of us on here.

Always look on the bright side of life  whistle whistle      whistle whistle    whistle whistle     whistle whistle (monty python)  :D :D :D

Online betty foRD

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Re: Elsie 2
« Reply #288 on: September 14, 2018, 02:24:55 PM »
Agree with all you’ve said and I’m all for doing what you can yourself. I’ve spent whole life doing that, it’s how you add value.
So hybrids end up as more expensive/valuable exactly because they have those trick parts, YPVS engines Athena stuff and billet this and that. The general rule of thum still applies though that ‘specials’ generally don’t hold up well value wise to like for like standard bikes but that doesn’t generally matter as that’s typically not why they were built.

I also fully agree with the material value based ‘disconnect’ where the numbers stamped into a frame and set of cases have such a profound influence maket value. It’s the human condition, maybe not the best side of humanity but a time old reality that desireabiliy based on other factors often drives demand and price.



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Online GR400

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Re: Elsie 2
« Reply #289 on: September 14, 2018, 05:09:07 PM »
An ex work colleague restored an early E Type roadster from a wreck a few years ago.  The only part salvaged from the original shell was the bulkhead with the number stamped on it, and then a complete new shell build on a jig around it.  But that made it original and worth the mega bucks.  It's a funny old world if you think about it too hard.
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Online tony2stroke

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Re: Elsie 2
« Reply #290 on: September 14, 2018, 09:19:15 PM »
Makes you think of Trig's broom, 4 new heads and 8 new handles  :D :D :D

Offline kawazonkey

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Re: Elsie 2
« Reply #291 on: September 14, 2018, 09:59:35 PM »
For some reason I know have the 'fork handles' sketch running in my head!

Agree with everything just said. Yes that swinger will need bracing. The Mito one will be even harder to do but worth it I think.

Had an email from the muppet who charged me £23 to post the worlds mankiest wheel....this is after I complained that he charged me £3 for posting the spindle that was in the package with the wheel!!

Stop being silly you bought a wheel with a good tyre for £7.50 corrosion could clearly be seen in photo a good rub down and paint and it will be fine spindle nut likewise .I sent you a disc and sprocket and sprocket carrier for free and didn’t charge you for postage and you complain about condition of free nuts

None of this was described and one low res pic of part of the wheel. Oh well, it's off having the tyre removed and I'll sort it out.










Online tony2stroke

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Re: Elsie 2
« Reply #292 on: September 14, 2018, 10:38:46 PM »
Are you whistling always look on the bright side of life too, I can't stop since I mentioned it earlier  :D :D :D

Offline kawazonkey

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Re: Elsie 2
« Reply #293 on: September 14, 2018, 10:47:33 PM »
Hahaha  :D

Offline kawazonkey

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Offline stukey

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Re: Elsie 2
« Reply #295 on: September 15, 2018, 08:51:59 AM »
I have never understood the mentality of the people who want the nos parts and matching numbers uk bikes either.I think it is since the collector/investor brigade have moved into the scene, that this has happened.It is like they are playing a top trumps game, with certain values placed on various rare or unobtainable parts.Back when i bought my first RD.I didn't give a stuff about wether it was matching numbers or uk spec. All i cared about was it did 100mph flat on the tank down hill will a good tailwind,you could beat just about anything away from the lights.Fix and maintain it with basic tools and it was loud and annoyed car drivers.The other thing i find strange about the rivet counter types, is, again.Back then, the first thing you did when you got your RD, was modify it with the latest goodies that were available.The only people who didn't were honda superdream owners :o maybe they are now wanting to be RD owners in their old age and looking for the excitment they never had :) :) :) :)
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Online tony2stroke

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Offline kawazonkey

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Re: Elsie 2
« Reply #297 on: September 16, 2018, 01:04:40 AM »
Another call out. Just got back home, broken battered and scarred. Too tired to take a bath (okok I will) but I have a cunning plan. Peter mentioned about my LC parts stashed away. Some are, some are on the little RD. My plan has changed. I know the Mito/Aprilia parts fit the LC as well as the RD. So...remove the LC front end from the RD, fit my spare Mito forks. Remove LC rear end and fit the YZF parts. Then hope that an LC frame pops up for free (lol) get that and nail all my spare LC parts to it. So I then have a LC standard rolling chassis. Refurb my spare tank, bung the clocks on and see what happens. I might sell that as is...probably keep it all to make a bog standard LC.

One crumb of comfort is that there is a lot of interest in my TZR. That poor little thing has sat doing nothing for ages. Do I need to keep it? Might raise a few quid to chuck at the other projects...

Offline Motty

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Re: Elsie 2
« Reply #298 on: September 16, 2018, 07:23:00 AM »
Yet more projects in the pipeline

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Online betty foRD

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Re: Elsie 2
« Reply #299 on: September 16, 2018, 08:34:07 AM »
Trying to keep three projects on the boil when funds are limited is bound to result in progress being slower than if you focussed on two.
The LC and Rd50 seems to be your core focus so it might be sensible to move the TZR on at the right price. Would also make some space and now’s the right time of year to sell projects.
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