Author Topic: Updated carb technical spec  (Read 56483 times)

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Offline My precious

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2013, 11:20:49 PM »
Indeed............ I have to triple check everything.
As for the C/D, are the UK setups the same as EU?
As I have found (and have) a UK 2R8 carb different from the EU, I am not sure if EU settings can be just transferred over, as the B settings are different as well?
Noticed the the later float heights are +/- 2.5mm, is it just me or is that not a bit excessive and, er, wrong when the early models are all +/- 1mm.
350B money-pit, feckin broken again............... (1976)
250A project (1975)
TZ350D/RD350B Hybrid Spondon (1975)
Ducati 916 (1997)
VFR400 project (1987) sold.
XJ6S Diversion (2010)
Yamaha R1Z 3XC 250cc power valve (1990)
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Offline My precious

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2013, 11:44:25 PM »
Who is to say the bike wasn't "hot", came from a dealer who wasn't Yamaha and somewhat dubious but it was 30 years ago....? If this was a German set-up only I'll put it in as we do have members.....
I've been cross-referencing the same sources possibly but backing it up with parts and info I have and searching the forum, jeez... it's feckin' time consuming.
I'll put in what I have done tonight and what you have sourced and put it up in about half an hour but there are still gaps and we will need some input from members to confirm some stuff and fill in some of the final gaps......

The 351/2 with 360/1 parts is a mystery, I can only think that they were already producing the new versions of the parts from external suppliers but was not economically viable to change frame and engine runs at the time.

Looked at the US/CAN/AU/NZ issues and will probably wait for members to come back with definitive data as this has been hard enough to sort. Started a couple of entries but when New South Wales has its own carb.............. I went "feck that"
350B money-pit, feckin broken again............... (1976)
250A project (1975)
TZ350D/RD350B Hybrid Spondon (1975)
Ducati 916 (1997)
VFR400 project (1987) sold.
XJ6S Diversion (2010)
Yamaha R1Z 3XC 250cc power valve (1990)
Member 380

Offline My precious

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2013, 11:58:23 PM »
I'll put up what I have shortly and it can be tweaked from there as I have killed too many brain cells for today.................
I know there is the UK/EU/US 1A0/1A1/1A2/1A3/2R8/9 GREY area and will be easier to fix when it is up and can be read against all the others.
350B money-pit, feckin broken again............... (1976)
250A project (1975)
TZ350D/RD350B Hybrid Spondon (1975)
Ducati 916 (1997)
VFR400 project (1987) sold.
XJ6S Diversion (2010)
Yamaha R1Z 3XC 250cc power valve (1990)
Member 380

Offline My precious

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2013, 12:18:29 AM »


Can you clarify the needle clip positionsyou quote 1 is at the top of the needle 5 at the bottom - so position 4 is
one notch richer than centre?


1 is at the top and will give a weak mixture, subsequently 5 is at the bottom and will be a rich mix.
350B money-pit, feckin broken again............... (1976)
250A project (1975)
TZ350D/RD350B Hybrid Spondon (1975)
Ducati 916 (1997)
VFR400 project (1987) sold.
XJ6S Diversion (2010)
Yamaha R1Z 3XC 250cc power valve (1990)
Member 380

Offline My precious

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2013, 01:01:04 AM »
Latest version for update................

350B money-pit, feckin broken again............... (1976)
250A project (1975)
TZ350D/RD350B Hybrid Spondon (1975)
Ducati 916 (1997)
VFR400 project (1987) sold.
XJ6S Diversion (2010)
Yamaha R1Z 3XC 250cc power valve (1990)
Member 380

Offline JRD

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2013, 04:46:22 AM »
Here is a photo of the 02 carb

The ball is not at 6 O'clock but in the hole to the left.

how about his for an unmolested NOS carb? pity they only had the one  :(


Its a 360 A3 type and a quick initial look confirmed 2.5 slide and 5I4 needle
Shiny !!
Reality is an Illusion caused by lack of Motorcycles
TZ750E,  TZ250 3YL
Spondon LC370, LC250 Special
TZR250 2MA F3, TZR250 3XV SP
TZR 250 3MA (all Race)
RD350A, RZ350, DT250

Offline My precious

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2013, 09:05:31 PM »
Hi Guys, had to take yesterday off as brain was fried..............  ::)
So, back on the horse as it were and back to the grindstone.
Just made Fajitas for the first time for tea, I'm more of a meat, potatoes and 3 veg + gravy and have all of that down to a Tee, first time for a wok as well, 53 and I'm still learning shit.................  :D
Right, 360-A3........... that's one of those carbs specifically made for the Wagga Wagga region of NSW...?
Actually, that's the first low-top I've seen with a black top  :-\ AND..... the that's the first hi-top I've seen without air correction float bowls........... jeez, what a nightmare, you Aussies have a lot to answer for.............  :D
Excel...... here I come.
350B money-pit, feckin broken again............... (1976)
250A project (1975)
TZ350D/RD350B Hybrid Spondon (1975)
Ducati 916 (1997)
VFR400 project (1987) sold.
XJ6S Diversion (2010)
Yamaha R1Z 3XC 250cc power valve (1990)
Member 380

Offline My precious

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2013, 10:56:23 PM »
OK, some things to throw out there.....
522-00 I am convinced is UK only and only found on the B models (unless our German members can tell us what was on the 1976 RD350 there.......?)
I was not aware that the 250A came bare finish, but, that said, they were sort of different carbs with different main jet and pilot jet, so would have had a different suffix code, which incidentally I haven't been able to get yet for the 350A baffled and un-baffled.
Any other "rest of World" black carb was a 361.
I have only found evidence of 360 carbs in AU/NZ.
I am giving C/D/E/F etc as VM28SS as the earlier VM28SC did not have the slide height inspection plug but did have independent floats. This makes it a different carb from C with the synchro window and "paired" floats. Can't see the "SS" as special, only a next gen carb and that changed from the C on to the F. Only grey area is the 2VO..... was this the same unit effectively as the C?

The DS7 and R5 needle jets. What jet is 0-0.......? They are all 175-something........ Also the 2V0, needle jet makes no sense also given as 0-0.

As for the long slide thing, if you look at the 2 of them stripped out in front of you, the high-top is way more engineered with quite a few extra parts and more metal involved, more expensive and therefore doomed due to cost cutting.
350B money-pit, feckin broken again............... (1976)
250A project (1975)
TZ350D/RD350B Hybrid Spondon (1975)
Ducati 916 (1997)
VFR400 project (1987) sold.
XJ6S Diversion (2010)
Yamaha R1Z 3XC 250cc power valve (1990)
Member 380

Offline My precious

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2013, 12:11:28 AM »
Latest version:

350B money-pit, feckin broken again............... (1976)
250A project (1975)
TZ350D/RD350B Hybrid Spondon (1975)
Ducati 916 (1997)
VFR400 project (1987) sold.
XJ6S Diversion (2010)
Yamaha R1Z 3XC 250cc power valve (1990)
Member 380

Offline JRD

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2013, 12:22:30 AM »
The NOS black low top above (360-A3) was sourced from Canada

Do you think that the carb part numbers might reveal some alignment with your findings?

Its quite possible that the part number suffix relates to any internal differences for locality.

this NOS carb has a -02-00 suffix. a search through all the parts books might be revealing ?
Reality is an Illusion caused by lack of Motorcycles
TZ750E,  TZ250 3YL
Spondon LC370, LC250 Special
TZR250 2MA F3, TZR250 3XV SP
TZR 250 3MA (all Race)
RD350A, RZ350, DT250

Offline My precious

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2013, 01:01:37 AM »
Yes, I stated from my findings earlier in this thread that the suffix number is very important.
It gives the version and "country" (and in Oz, a specific region.......... there is even one for high altitude regions, suffix -50).
Standard -00 is for the country it was originally destined for, subsequently, each re-jetting for another region changed the code. The code does not tell you which country, only that it is a "variant". You have to know the carb model and the suffix to which it applies and has no specific formulae to determine the region.
As the 522-00 is found on UK "B" models, this states that this carb was designed to be for UK use primarily. I am not aware that there was a 522-10 so at this time, the 522 is a UK only set-up.
In that same light, the 2R8-00 was the carb designed for the 2R8 250E. All 250E's around the world have the 2R8-00 carb as there was no variant........... except for Belgium, which had a baffled filter and therefore a re-jetted carb to suit, 2R8-10, why, I ask, is Belgium the only country in the world that had to have a baffled filter on a 250E.....? In that vein, the 522-00 baffled filter hi-top was only for the UK......? Bugger................

I'm missing the 350 non-letter and the 350A code so that may be 360 as you state. Thing is, the 250A came in 2 flavours.... 361-G1 non-baffled and 361-G3 baffled filter. So, we have to find out the 2 suffixes for the 350A versions as well or the info is not complete/incorrect.
We need 350/350A owners to tell us what the codes are................

I have just noticed a potential mistake............. I have the 350B and 250B down as 522-00, but, this theoretically incorrect as the 522-00 is only for the 350B, looking at the rest of the data and the fact that the 250B has different jetting, and needle clip position, the 250B should actually be 521-00, OR, 522-10...............  :-\
Again, I need the owner of a genuine original UK 250B to supply the correct info. The engine I got for my 250B rolling chassis is a 250A so I can't help myself. I will be converting this to full 250B spec on the rebuild though.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 01:27:05 AM by My precious »
350B money-pit, feckin broken again............... (1976)
250A project (1975)
TZ350D/RD350B Hybrid Spondon (1975)
Ducati 916 (1997)
VFR400 project (1987) sold.
XJ6S Diversion (2010)
Yamaha R1Z 3XC 250cc power valve (1990)
Member 380

Offline My precious

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2013, 08:14:07 PM »
Whilst I'm waiting for Microsoft to stop tinkering with my Office 2013.................... yes I tried to open it and was told it was busy because Microsoft were "updating, making changes and removing programs" and it would be "available shortly".  :-\ Didn't even know they had snuck in the back door.

Anyway, shall discuss the points raised.
Although I have never heard of seen a number being "tampered" with by a manufacturer, I can't see an individual going to the bother of doing this themselves, like, have you seen the size of the numbers? I need a x10 jewellers loupe to see mine. They look very authentic and match perfectly in size, must have been an "end of run" stock use.

I have the entire guts of a 400C in stock so should be able to sort something out there by swapping the entire thing onto the 250A shafts so I can retain the original clutch and sprocket.

Ah......... I'm allowed to use office again, will post up the latest in a while and will try to re-size things to fit it on to one A3 making it easier to view.

350B money-pit, feckin broken again............... (1976)
250A project (1975)
TZ350D/RD350B Hybrid Spondon (1975)
Ducati 916 (1997)
VFR400 project (1987) sold.
XJ6S Diversion (2010)
Yamaha R1Z 3XC 250cc power valve (1990)
Member 380

Offline My precious

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2013, 08:29:05 PM »
Did the EU have the 522 and 521 models or did they stick with the 361 and 360. Might explain why 521 silencers are as rare as unicorn horn and the only baffles you can get are 360's ?
350B money-pit, feckin broken again............... (1976)
250A project (1975)
TZ350D/RD350B Hybrid Spondon (1975)
Ducati 916 (1997)
VFR400 project (1987) sold.
XJ6S Diversion (2010)
Yamaha R1Z 3XC 250cc power valve (1990)
Member 380

Offline My precious

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2013, 09:42:00 PM »
Latest version now with formatting to make it easier to view..............  :)

350B money-pit, feckin broken again............... (1976)
250A project (1975)
TZ350D/RD350B Hybrid Spondon (1975)
Ducati 916 (1997)
VFR400 project (1987) sold.
XJ6S Diversion (2010)
Yamaha R1Z 3XC 250cc power valve (1990)
Member 380

Offline My precious

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Re: Updated carb technical spec
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2013, 09:59:08 PM »
Yes, 1A0 baffles fit grand, you just can't buy pattern ones, only 360 type, only NOS or used if you are lucky to find a pair not broken off at the perforated tube.
350B money-pit, feckin broken again............... (1976)
250A project (1975)
TZ350D/RD350B Hybrid Spondon (1975)
Ducati 916 (1997)
VFR400 project (1987) sold.
XJ6S Diversion (2010)
Yamaha R1Z 3XC 250cc power valve (1990)
Member 380