Author Topic: Vintage Smoke Install.  (Read 6947 times)

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Offline Preload

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Vintage Smoke Install.
« on: August 16, 2013, 03:30:16 PM »
                             Vintage Smoke Ignition Installation.

Hi Chaps here’s an ignition upgrade if you don’t like the points system which I'm aware that some members are happy with.
 
Check you have all the parts & tools to do this install

 
Prepare your working area ie clean & clear.
 
Disconnect the battery for safety also cover the exhaust pipe then remove the petrol tank then off comes the alternator/points cover, the gear lever, and left side engine cover.
 



 
Remove the condenser/s and the left and right point plates you will need a 5.5mm spanner to undo the points wiring nuts. (One of the condenser screws will be used to secure the wiring for the new ignition once it is installed).
 

 
Remove the 3 Cross point head screws securing the alternator housing. Your bike should now look like this.

                                   
Using a 12mm socket remove the bolt securing the “cam” that opens and closes the points.  (It is the hex head bolt with a screwdriver slot) Do not remove the points cam yet.
 
Carefully remove the alternator housing I took it completely off as I didn’t want to damage anything hanging it by the wires. I also inserted the supplied Red wire while it was off (which is mention in the wiring section). The alternator housing should be pressed steel housing on a B model
Note:  Handle the housing carefully in order to prevent any damage to the windings.




IMPORTANT:
Once you remove the housing you will see a small locating pin at approximately the 7 o'clock position protruding from the engine case. This pin has a corresponding notch in the alternator housing. Later, when the housing is re-installed, this pin MUST line up with the notch in the housing. Don’t lose it!
 

 
Once you have the alternator housing removed you can remove the points cam. The cam is a snug fit in the alternator rotor and can be tight if it’s never been removed before; very light tap with a soft face hammer should be enough to loosen it.
Note: Be careful as too much force will loosen the alternator rotor as well.
 
Now re-install the alternator housing remembering to line up the location pin mentioned earlier. Re-install the 3 Cross point head screws that secure the alternator housing.
 
Now the new timing plate (the plate that holds the two ignition modules) can be installed. The hole in the centre of the plate will locate over a lip in the centre of alternator housing.
 

 
It should slide on with a little effort and allow the plate to be rotated easily to adjust timing easily. The plate should also lay flat against the alternator housing again be careful to make sure its smooth fit and don’t force it!
 
Insert one screw, lock washer, and flat washer (included in the kit) through each of the adjusting slots on either side of the timing plate. Do not tighten at this time. Using one of the old condenser screws hold the small plastic cable clamp (provided in the kit) in place where the condenser used to be fitted.
 


Magnetic trigger.

 
Insert the magnetic trigger through the timing plate hole into the alternator rotor. The trigger has a notch cut in it that slides over the pin in the centre of the alternator rotor. The notch is slightly larger than the pin and will allow for a slight adjustment if needed later. The trigger should be held firmly in place and rotated back and forth to ensure that the trigger sits Square, Flush and Smooth in the alternator rotor and position it approximately in the middle of the gap. Put the new supplied flat washer against the trigger then fit the original bolt & spring washer and fit  (so not to damage the trigger).
It should now look something like below.
 

 
Remove both spark plugs so making turning the motor easier to rotate the motor by hand. The new trigger should spin true and concentric. Make sure that the trigger does not touch either of the ignition modules.


Wiring

Wiring is straight forward requiring only 3 connections to be made.
 
Coming from the VS ignition modules will be a Red wire but not yet connected. (This wire Red at coil end and Black at module end with female connector). It supplies power to the ignition modules. It has to be slid through the rubber grommet.
(Note: I did this while on the bench as I found it easier). Using some silicon oil I slid the wire though the rubber grommet
 
Now at pickup module end of the Red wire you just slid through and connect the male/female pin connector. Cover it with the supplied piece of heat shrink tubing.
 

 
Once out of the long grommet it will end up approximately under the carbs. Since the petrol tank is removed you will see the ignition coils. The Red wire can now be run up along the tachometer cable to the ignition coils. The 2 ignition coils are fed power by a RED/BLACK wire that splits into an electrical “Y” connector and goes to each coil.
Since I have OEM coils this is how to fit.
 

OEM/Original Coils.

Included in the kit is a Scotch-lock connector fit this to one of the brown wires coming out of the coils and is pressed together with a pair of pliers. Now I crimped & soldered the supplied spade terminal on the end of the Red wire and plugged it into the Scotch-lock connector. Using the heat shrink cover where you crimped/soldered on the spade connector.
 

 
Back at the other end you will now be left with the Orange and Grey wires in the alternator area which were previously connected to the points. Each wire will have the standard “U” shaped connector on the end. Cut off each connector (keep if you are sad like me) and replace it with the male bullet/pin connector provided in the kit.
The Orange and Grey wires should be trimmed as short as possible to ensure a neat compact fit.
 

 
Crimp and solder the bullet connectors. Slide the provided piece of heat shrink over the female pins coming from the modules and plug the Orange wire into the White module wire and the Grey wire into the Black module wire. Shrink the heat shrink and the wiring connections are complete!
Use the small clamp provided to secure the wiring coming from the modules with one of the old condenser screws and holes.. Make sure that the placement of the clamp does not bind or pull on the module wires when rotating the timing plate.
At this point make sure none of the wires are rubbing against any thing as shorting will occur I use some small zip ties to stop movement.
 
Timing
 
Gently nip down the two screws securing the timing plate to the alternator housing. The plate should be flat against the housing, but still easy to rotate.
 
If you have not done so already, remove both spark plugs from the engine. Replace the spark plug for the left cylinder into the end of the spark plug wire. Lay the spark plug on top of the cylinder head. Install your DTI (dial test indicator) in the left cylinder spark plug hole and rotate the motor anti-clockwise until the left piston is at your desired setting. 1.8mm BTDC (Before Top Dead Center) RD350B.
 
Reconnect the battery, turn on the ignition key, and turn on the run/stop switch.
(Do Not leave power on as can over heat coils and modules can cause a failure).
 
You will now notice that there is a small mark on the trigger. This mark is the approximate point where the trigger will passes the sensor and fire the ignition coil. A silver paint line has also been applied on top of the module for approximate reference only.
 

 
Rotate the timing plate fully anti-clockwise.  Then slowly rotate the timing plate back clockwise. When the marks on the trigger just come into range of the sensor on the module the spark plug will spark. You should hear and see when the plug fires.

Once you have the timing set you should double check the accuracy of your setting. Tighten down the 2 screws securing the timing plate being careful not to move the plate. Slowly rotate the motor over anti-clockwise while watching the dial gauge. The plug should fire as the gauge reaches your desired setting on the gauge.
 




IMPORTANT
WARNING: Do not leave the ignition key and or run/stop switch on for more than a minute or two at a time when setting timing. Besides draining the battery, leaving the power on too long will overheat the ignition coils as well as the pick-up modules.
 
Just for photo purposes I left off some heat shrinks etc.

I hope this helps.

The latest Vintage Smoke Mk2 system soon!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 02:18:09 PM by Preload »
RD350B (Mitsui Mongrel).
Runner up Yamaha Donington Japanese & Modern Classic Bike Show 2013

RD400C (now registered) :-)
FJR1300 Mk1 and best one
Tmax XP500
Nippy Norman
Aprilia Habana
The lastest CBX750F basket case.
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Offline Butchers

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2013, 04:09:49 PM »
Thats a handy bit of info. A good way down the road before i get to that stage thou  ::) ::) ::) but i like the idea of doing away with the points etc

nice one  ;) ;)
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Offline Preload

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2013, 07:20:24 PM »
Update: Mk2 Vintage Smoke System
Nick Pastor of VM and I have been doing cross pond co-operation on the Mk2 ignition.
The latest system is superior to the previous as both the modules can be individually timed which is useful as RD cranks are not a perfect 180degs.


As you can see the modules are separate also a new type sensor is used.


The setup is basically the same as the Mk1 apart from when adjusting the modules they individual and must be pushed towards the raised register on the winding housing while adjusting to keep the distance between the magnetic trigger and modules constant.


Once fitted it’s not obvious there are 2 individual modules.


Once fitted set the timing as before but remember that you have do both sides.


I made this post brief as the systems are similar.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 02:20:23 PM by Preload »
RD350B (Mitsui Mongrel).
Runner up Yamaha Donington Japanese & Modern Classic Bike Show 2013

RD400C (now registered) :-)
FJR1300 Mk1 and best one
Tmax XP500
Nippy Norman
Aprilia Habana
The lastest CBX750F basket case.
RosPa trained & Warwickshire Mag Member

Offline RD JOCK

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2013, 07:30:27 PM »
nice one Neal ,real cracking post I for one will be utilising in the future  8)
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Offline Preload

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2013, 07:32:31 PM »
Your welcome Hugh.
RD350B (Mitsui Mongrel).
Runner up Yamaha Donington Japanese & Modern Classic Bike Show 2013

RD400C (now registered) :-)
FJR1300 Mk1 and best one
Tmax XP500
Nippy Norman
Aprilia Habana
The lastest CBX750F basket case.
RosPa trained & Warwickshire Mag Member

Offline Paul Dawkins

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2013, 07:37:04 PM »
Good Info
Now Stickied
Just wondering if we should move this to the Skill Centre ?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 07:38:51 PM by Paul Dawkins »
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Offline Preload

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2013, 07:42:14 PM »
Doh! I should have put in there.
Where is the Skill Centre?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 07:46:59 PM by Preload »
RD350B (Mitsui Mongrel).
Runner up Yamaha Donington Japanese & Modern Classic Bike Show 2013

RD400C (now registered) :-)
FJR1300 Mk1 and best one
Tmax XP500
Nippy Norman
Aprilia Habana
The lastest CBX750F basket case.
RosPa trained & Warwickshire Mag Member

Online mervin

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2013, 08:21:54 PM »
Skill centre is no more , tis all hot topics now, they where the same thing anyway
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Offline Preload

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2013, 07:48:04 AM »
OK Merv. I wouldn't have thought to look in there. ???
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 11:37:15 PM by Preload »
RD350B (Mitsui Mongrel).
Runner up Yamaha Donington Japanese & Modern Classic Bike Show 2013

RD400C (now registered) :-)
FJR1300 Mk1 and best one
Tmax XP500
Nippy Norman
Aprilia Habana
The lastest CBX750F basket case.
RosPa trained & Warwickshire Mag Member

Offline saddler

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2013, 09:25:05 AM »
Excellent stuff Neal, I can see this being a much used topic and hopefully it will be in the Skillcentre shortly ;)
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Offline bluecatbandit

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2014, 07:14:36 PM »
have one of these ignitions for my rd 400 cmodel American import all instructions how to fit come with the kit .
many a good tune played on an old fiddle .

Offline dandywarhol

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2014, 11:54:48 AM »
I cannot see any photos  :(
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Offline bluecatbandit

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2014, 07:07:08 PM »
sorry m8 don,t have any photos can,t upload them to the site im origonaly from dalkieth not far from edinburgh ,live in the channel islands now lived in dalkieth for 38 yrs .
many a good tune played on an old fiddle .

Offline bluecatbandit

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2014, 07:22:41 PM »
punch my name into fbook all photos there . none of ignition very simple system its with my friend who is building my engine for me , he races dirt bikes over here expensive though over 200£.
many a good tune played on an old fiddle .

Offline Honolulu-Mike

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Re: Vintage Smoke Install.
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2014, 03:06:50 AM »
bluecatbandit on facebook?  I didn't find you.